Ruthless truths
Prof. Dipankar Gupta of JNU writing in indiatimes says : 'This is why opposition to the OBC reservation should not be approached from the angle of downgrading merit but from the larger democratic principle of citizenship. When Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes were given reservations it was to make sure that they would get some help to pull themselves out of centuries of discrimination and disprivileges. But this was not the case with the OBCs. They were certainly never discriminated against and kept from going to schools and picking up an education. In fact, after land reforms and zamindari abolition these agrarian castes, that prefer to be called Backwards today, became the dominant communities in rural India. Further, it may also be recalled that many Scheduled Caste activists have pointed out that it is these dominant agrarian castes that are more exploitative and ruthless against the subjugated communities than members of the other three varnas.'
The Professor wants you to accept his opinion that the 'Backwards' are now the dominant communities in rural India as clinching proof that they do not deserve reservations. Here's what another egghead, Satish Deshpande has to say, with the help of some figures (from the NSSO's much disputed 55th Round, but figures nonetheless): 'Looking at the land ownership data from the 55th Round, we find that the ``Others'' comprise 50 per cent of all households owning more than 4 hectares of land, while the OBCs are 35 per cent, Scheduled Castes 6 per cent and Scheduled Tribes 8 per cent. Although this does not tell us how much land is owned by each group, it does suggest that popular stereotypes about the OBCs having ousted the upper castes from land ownership may be somewhat exaggerated.'
So, those figures tell us the OBCs haven't replaced the upper castes as the 'dominant communities' in rural India. But they still don't disprove the 'fact' that the these 'dominant (?) communities have been more 'exploitative and ruthless against the subjugated communities than members of the other three varnas'. The Professor must have exclusive access to every single record of 'exploitative and ruthless' acts against the Dalits for the last three thousand and odd years to conclude with such confidence that the OBCs have been 'more exploitative and ruthless' in the fifty odd years since Independence!
Let's look at Bihar, one of the chief akharas of Mandalised politics, for instance: '..A look at the 'chronology of massacres' in the rural south Bihar shows only a few incidents show the 'backward castes' or 'upper backwards' being involved in attacks on SCs - 11 out of 90 incidents...This means that roughly only about 10% of attacks, involved the 'upper backwards' attacking Dalits.' That was from a paper presented by Shaibal Gupta at the "Conference on State Politics in India in the 1990s'.
The well recorded incidents of 'ruthlessness' in States such as Uttar Pradesh and Tamil Nadu can't be denied - but who did they involve? A few 'upper backwards' like the Yadavs and Thevars. And a few other castes whose names have been selectively picked and brandished as evidence that the OBCs are, not the 'oppressed', but active 'oppressors' by anti-reservationists cutting across IQ levels. These 'oppressing castes' - how many are they? Not more than a few dozen. Only two dozen or so perhaps. Out of 3700 odd castes across the country - most of whom traditionally practised such occupations as fishing, snake-charming, rat-catching..begging, among others. Apart from bead-making, pottery, stone-cutting, hairdressing, tailoring and...(this, as a blogger I have come to admire- Apurva Mathad suggested, deserves another post). Oppressors?
Don't you agree this 'exploitation and ruthlessness' needs to be seriously investigated before any judgments are passed?
This expansive use of generalisations, this mixing of 'the gossip of menials' (as JM Lyngdoh would have probably called it) with the language of academia and this parading of prejudices as 'proof'.. beamed across national television by a beaming media.. make reservations a very ruthless 'debate'.
94 Comments:
know what--who cares?
....you can shut your butt and sit on your chair....
Hey OBC Voice,
Your amazing man. You do have tinted glasses.As I said in the rules of blogging that prevail here:
Anything that is in favour of the OBC's ,be it as disputeable as the Mandal report,is your bible your gospel of truth and all must religiously accept it.How dare they not!!
But as soon as something is anti-OBC its very basics are questionable and the writer is a egg-head.
Pretty selective acceptance of the written word bro , and ofcourse so BROAD minded
Oh I forgot, both sides of a story never bothered you.
My contacts with OBCVOICE always leave me with a certain amount of contempt for his philosophies, who seems to rely on the assumption that, if you can string together enough vague and high-sounding rhetoric(also primitive data figures,if possible), you can ignore both
(1) reasonings for why reservations should NOT be there
(2) and logic.
*with special thanks to MADHAT for the lines above*
I wonder how many of you have read his previous posts.
He is against the teachings of Lord Krishna and dubs him as a 'caste propagator'
and calls Pt.Jawaharla Nehru a second rate thinker.
I would request all of you to give OBCvoice a standing ovation.
Hey OBC Voice,
When you have time from bashing upper caste people as selfish please read this interview
http://ia.rediff.com/news/2006/jun/13inter1.htm?q=np&file=.htm
Ofcourse for you he is another egg head and all is work in his field is "questionable"
Hopefully you dont consider yourself and your opinions based on YOUR findings superior to Mr.P Radhakrishnan?
The Nutritional Value for: eggs
Description Quantity Energy
(calories) Carbs
(grams) Protein
(grams) Cholesterol
(milligrams) Weight
(grams) Fat
(grams) Saturated Fat
(grams)
cooked, fried 1 egg 90 1 6 211 46 7 1.9
cooked, hard-cooked 1 egg 75 1 6 213 50 5 1.6
cooked, poached 1 egg 75 1 6 212 50 5 1.5
cooked, scrambled/omelet 1 egg 100 1 7 215 61 7 2.2
raw, white 1 white 15 0 4 0 33 0 0
raw, whole 1 egg 75 1 6 213 50 5 1.6
raw, yolk 1 yoke 60 0 3 213 17 5 1.6
About Eggs -- the Six Sizes
* The weight per dozen eggs by size of egg: 30z Jumbo
27oz Extra Large
24oz Large
21oz Medium
18oz Small
15z PeeWee
* Only 3 ounces separate each class. That's only 0.25-oz variation per egg.
* Q. When a recipe calls for large eggs, will I ruin the batter if I use medium or jumbo instead?
* A: That depends. Any size may be used for frying, scrambling, or cooking eggs in the shell.
* For baking, it can matter. THREE is the "cut-off" or critical value, according to the OBC Egg Board.
* When baking, most baking recipes call for large eggs; that's 1/4-cup per egg.
* If a recipe calls for fewer than three eggs, it probably won't affect the result to substitute another sized egg. Nor will it matter if you use a whole egg when rescaling would logically call for less than one egg. Use the whole egg and adjust the amount of liquid in the recipe to compensate.
* For three or more eggs, the egg board recommends the following:
* 3 large eggs = 2 jumbo = 3 extra large = 3 medium = 3/4 cup = 6 oz
* 4 large eggs = 3 jumbo = 4 extra large = 5 medium = 1 cup = 8 oz
* 5 large eggs = 4 jumbo = 4 extra large = 6 medium = 1 1/4 cups = 10 oz
* 6 large eggs = 5 jumbo = 5 extra large = or 7 medium = 1 1/2 cups = 12 oz
* Another option would be to use egg powder or liquid eggs and measure the equivalent amount for any number of eggs.
The wages of sin, Watson - the wages of sin!
manee,
I consider you superior to Mr.P.Radhakrishnan.. and his findings(?)
First commenter...,
Just one indicator of how broad his facts are.. Reservations actually started in 1821. And they were not for the lower castes.So what else is original about his 'findings'?
Hey OBC, dont get angry or turned by this upper caste rant. you are doing a wonderful job, the only problem is that there are not enough obc and SC/ ST guys on the net.
Had there been enough OBC medicos, there would not have been no strike. Had there been enough guys in IITs and IIMs, there would have been lesser pressure these guys as well.
So, dont worry the government is in the right direction and it has taken the right decision.
Let, these people cry hogwash about merit and blah blah. Basically they are fighting to protect their privileged turf of thousands of years, so dont worry.
Hey guys
Did you see how Dr Devi Shetty of the Narayan Hrudalaya tackled the great Shekhar Gupta of Indian aka Bania Express on NDTVs Walk The Talk.
Just read that interview and you will realize how hard Shekhar tried to put words in the great medicos mouth. But, everytime he tried to do so, he was simply putoff by the great elan and class of Dr Shetty.
Instead of taking the Bania line, the great doctor advised the medicos to ask the government of increasing the number of seats instead of asking to go back on reservations.
Instad of condemning the reservation policy of governemt, as Shekhar Gupta wanted him to do, the suave doctor instead, asked the government to increase the number of seats by 1000 percent to ensure that there were enough seats for the general candidates.
In one of his statements, he also said that most of the doctors came from the upper caste and class elites, much to the discomfort of the Indian aka Bania express.
mineguruji,
no i'm not angry.. but some 'indians' will never fail to surprise me, I guess.
Yes, I had seen the interview.. and shekhar gupta should be looking for some 'chullu bhar pani'.. by now.
you online mate
Great to hear you. The National Highway is also doing good work. I think we in India will never have caste less society. When caste problem ends, there would emerge the class problem. I think.
This Shetty is a great guy, i think he should get Bharat Ratna for helping the poor and needy.
@manee: Thanks for the credit. I suppose twisting words and quoting somebody incorrectly so as to make a point is a congenital disease that does not have a cure.
all bloggers from backward caste are opposing exclusion of creamy layer because they all belong to creamy layer , and dont want to give easy options. Even though it is taking away chance of some other really needy ( such a those involved in fishing, snake-charming, rat-catching..begging, among others. Apart from bead-making, pottery, stone-cutting, hairdressing, tailoring and etc). After all its me first then my caste..........
i belong to maharashtra, and i can definately say that in villages, where i had spent most of my holidays, OBC are considered upper caste, and sit and live diferently from dalits. in fact in most of the villages , there are no more than 1 or 2 families belonging to general cat(as most have migrated to cities), and its only those belonging to OBC consider themselves of higher caste and discriminate against dalits
I wish all these 'anti-reservationists' come up with some quality ideas and thoughts. That will make the discussion more fruitful.
Their incessant, vitriolic and irrelevant tirade for anti reservation is not sufficient.
Come with some points all of you.
all bloggers from backward caste are opposing exclusion of creamy layer because they all belong to creamy layer , and dont want to give easy options. Even though it is taking away chance of some other really needy ( such a those involved in fishing, snake-charming, rat-catching..begging, among others. Apart from bead-making, pottery, stone-cutting, hairdressing, tailoring and etc). After all its me first then my caste..........
pro-reservations,
their only point is that they want reservations postponed..until next year.. and next. and next. they don't ask for it in a straightforward fashion - they want them 'reviewed', rolled back until a review is held, they want 'socio-economic' data, and if it's available.. they want today's data.. they want the 'creamy layer' to be identified and until that's done..they want reservations to be put on hold.. they want a fresh census taken but..not in a hurry.. until then they'd drag in all kinds of 'successful people' to make silly points about 'dilution of standards' and stuff..and prepare the ground for taking the issue to the courts, again,..and..another ten years would have passed by this time..and a very co-operative government would sleep on it for another half-a-dozen years or so..and the drama would start again.
Hi there anonymous person just above me.
No one is opposing exclusion of creamy layer. Please get your facts right. The question is about reservation. There is already creamy layer in the OBC reservation in jobs.
Infact most of us here have not got reservation and will not get it. But we are asking for reservation for the upliftment of those deprived castes whose plight I have seen.
now ministers are saying that quata for sc to be raised by 1 % because there pop has increased by 1 % that means that reservations have not helped even 1% over last 50 yrs???????
@OBCVoice - You have summed it up perfectly well. These are all red herring to delay and fudge the issue.
Like I said in one of my previous comment, if they get one set of data they will ask another set.
Why don't they ask themself have they treated or think about OBCs in dignified manner. I have had enough of discrimination, casteist comments and what not. I have seen how much social stigma is attached with being an OBC in India. They know it as well.
if it would have been that of social stigma, not so many caste would have been applying for being considered to be obc!!!!!!!!!!
even i am going to try obc certificate for my caste, why should my child work hard just because he belongs to my caste????
creamy layer is modified by most states, tamil nadu does not have any !!
@Pro-reservations
Discussions and dialogue happen when both parties are ready to listen.
I am suprised that people like you are not infuriated at the ease with which OBCVoice rubbishes anything that goes against him
Be it from a writer who is clearly much more learned than him and probably spent his life reasearching about the backward class.
I refuse to be swayed by his new found fervour for this topic which is close 4 mnths old.And his "research" is limited to a few google searches.
I refuse to be judged by a person who sprouts hatred.And whose immature brain makes him a self proclaimed messiah of the OBC's
I refuse to be swayed by a guy with such a foul mouth,who is so blinded by his new found web-presence that now he will do anything to satisfy his ego.
A person who really feels for something always makes sure that he has read and atleast made an effort to see both sides.His hatred is so visible everytime he writes.
I am surprised at Mine guruji who as of now has been riding on the back of his mate,and justifies that OBC Voice is not having a lot of support because not many OBC people are on the NET!! How lame is that?
This blog is just an immature ,one-sided, attempt to justify something that has already been decided by the govt.
@ OBCVoice
OBC voice, the decision is irrevocable. And if the students were asking for data, it will have no effect on this bill. No politician/party has the balls to upset the OBC.
When a decision which affects ones future is made every Indian has the right to question it.
Now you are against people doing that??SO according to you in one of the largest democracy when a decision is made it must be meekely accepted , not questioned by the people, by the court or anyone else.
Your principles of democracy are quite clear.
@ Madhat,
In your post you have beautifully put down how people see only black and white. And a very few people can see the grey.
I totally agree with you.
In that refrence ,do you think that your mate here,OBCVoice, sees the grey ever?
When you seem to have such a clear understanding why people have difference of opinions i find it pretty contradictory that you support a guy who sees all uppercaste as black, everything about the OBC's as white,pure angelic.
How come you support a guy who rubbishes people like me who see the grey, who want him to see the grey and know that neither the upper caste nor the OBC's are saints???
You said in a comment earlier that you dont like people spreading rhetoric ideas.
In the wake of your support to OBCvoice, can I safely assume that in this case your post about the necessity to see grey is rhetoric.???
Hi OBC voice,
You have refused, for some reason, to reveal your name. I hope it is not because you do not want to endorse your own views outside the cyber world.
I am assuming that you belong to the OBC. Guess what, me too. The difference ends there however.
I am opposed to reservations as the final policy towards solving the social problem that is the Indian caste system. I believe that other more effective methods exist that do not darken the line further between the upper and lower castes. As an example, there was a percentile based approach put forward by Vikas Narang here:
http://www.antireservation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=144&start=15
Also, OBCs are not oppressed in society. They are historically *economically* downtrodden, not socially. For them financial assistance is more important than seat reservation. Financial assistance is a substitute for their economical deficiency, not their talent and that should be the way.
I believe both sides (the anti-reservationists and pro-reservationists) need to come together and agree on the mutual point that social upliftment is required and then come together to work on a solution which will bring about aggregate upliftment of the Indian society without deepening the barriers of caste any further.
I am only human ; i see pple like myself being stripped of sanity because of your lousy blog....sob sob
some thoughts ; and i know its difficult to do but try to take a detatched view ;
1. Primary education : y dont you raise a voice for the quality of primary education? The proportion of people reaching a stage of higher education ( of any caste) is miniscule ...Even if we accept the fact that 60 % of indians would be categorized as OBC how many of them would be able to benefit?.Surely a focus on primary education would be for the greater good. Close down on all higher education institutes IITS , IIMs...the lot... for all castes ..shudnt WE and specifically YOU be fighting for better primary education?
2. Agreed the treatment of lower castes has been deplorable by the upper castes. But surely two wrongs can never make a right?...what u propose are injustices to solve other historical crimes ?....dont you see nothing is perfect?...after a generation or two of these reservations ull have a vast ill educated populace of upper castes....
3.I was a student at IITD and IIMA ...ive met a lot of pple from the SC/ST quotas ( incidently ALL of them much better off than me ..by way of politician/bureaucrat/psu parents). I genuinely believe that IIT/IIM was the worst possible thing they did with their lives. They were all talented in one way or the other but thrust into an environment of pple who had come in the hard way and had much more to lose they could not compete. It was not their fault but misplaced expectations of society that was their un doing. Most of them left with shattered egos , forever questioning their identities and their place in the world. I can only imagine the gnawing feeling they must feel when they would question their conscious on whether they deserved wherever the degree got them?...I wouldnt wish that fate on my worst enemy.
I also know of some SC friends who competed in the general category and got through...these people are among the very few in the world i have the utmost respect for and pride in.
If you are an OBC you belong to a set of people who have suffered deplorably under the so called upper caste. I cannot begin to imagine the treatment meted out to your forefathers and it feels me with the utmost shame. You are right to feel aggrieved . But surely you would realize that reservation in higher learning is the last thing you want. You should raise your voice for bigger things like primary education , basic health care for all indians....Try thinking about it .....the choice is essentially between a short cut to 'faked' greatness and the long path of true glory and exorcising the demons of the past.
@ Insane,
OBC Voice will rubbish you soon for having stated your personal experience as evidence.
Did you read my Golden rules of commenting on his blog?? how dare you not comply???
Personal experience of a person if it goes against the OBC is not to be listed on this blog as evidence that the reservation system is not working. I had people in my class from the OBC/SC/ST who could not cope with engineering studies because and later on did badly in campus interviews..I felt terrible for them...Its a bigger shame to have got out of a prestigious institution without a job...But I am not supposed to think that that is an indication of the failure of the actual goal of reservations.
Of course personal experience of a OBC who says he was taunted by his uppercaste neighbours is immediately accepted as evidence that the entire OBC clan is living in deplorable conditions.
Such is the one-sided view this awesome guy holds.And try as much you want he will not accept that all througout his blog all he wants to hear is pro-OBC sentiment.
I thought before he gets down on you I better warn you what is in store.
Everyone should have enough money to get plastic surgery.
"This Shetty is a great guy, i think he should get Bharat Ratna for helping the poor and needy."
He was a wise man who originated the idea of God.
First-Commentor-on-Last-Blog:
dont worry, its not original ;)
First-Commentor-on-Last-Blog:
dont worry, its not original ;)
"no i'm not angry.. but some 'indians' will never fail to surprise me, I guess."
Luckier than one's neighbor, but still not happy.
"I think we in India will never have caste less society. When caste problem ends, there would emerge the class problem. I think."
Money couldn't buy friends, but you got a better class of enemy.
suresh,
welcome back siddhesh..
insane,
you sounded saner the first time.
for mr obc voice and mineguruji, if you think that agitation at aiims was suggestive of brahmin-baniya against obc, then let me inform u that both president and sec and many other frontrunners in agitation belong to backward caste who have taken seats through gen cat.
"you sounded saner the first time."
Too much sanity may be madness and the maddest of all, to see life as it is and not as it should be.
anonymous,
the president and secretary were OBCs?
like manmohan singh is the prime minister and sonia holds the reins..? You've taken tokenism to great new depths.
"You've taken tokenism to great new depths."
i am sorry will u elaborate?????
let me further add most obc (approx 20% among aiims resident are obc), infact all participated in strike
A lot of blacks served the Confedrate army in the American Civil War. Tariq Aziz in Saddam's Cabinet was a Christian..And you find token 'good' muslim characters in muslim-bashing hindi movies ..
It's an old PR tactic, as old as the Kurukshetra.
Oh my lord,the all-knowing OBCVoice,
You defintely know a thing or 2 about PR tactics.
Else why would you have used "my Shudra ears" in your blog?? If a politician wants to generate a sympathy wave , he must come to you for sure.
A lot of blacks served the Confedrate army in the American Civil War. Tariq Aziz in Saddam's Cabinet was a Christian..And you find token 'good' muslim characters in muslim-bashing hindi movies ..
all the above worked for money, here it was voluntery, they could have easily joined back duties but all not only persisted but participated actively
Your blog is really funny....i have added it to my favorite list and comes here whenever i get bored.
to Obcvoice,
Am I superior to MR.P Radhakrishnan?
This proves your distorted vision...You view all the people in the wrong state of superiority or inferiority...
Ah... By the way,Its really getting interesting talking to you... :-)
to Madhat,
"I suppose twisting words and quoting somebody incorrectly so as to make a point is a congenital disease that does not have a cure."
what did YOU do ?
madhat...
Good medical knowledge by the way.
anonymous,
yes, the token outsider usually has to work harder to prove his 'loyalty'.
to the rest of the people(who make sense)...
I love psychology and its so thrilling to decode the mysterious psyches of unusual people.
Nowadays Im working on the subject you people call 'Obcvoice'...
trust me...he is damn interesting.
"yes, the token outsider usually has to work harder to prove his 'loyalty'."
Loyalty is a feature in a boy's character that inspires boundless hope.
Unless you can find some sort of loyalty, you cannot find unity and peace in your active living
What would happen if INDIAN TITANIC sank?
You wouldnt survive bcoz mojority of therescue boats would b reserved 4 sc/st/obc !!!!
anonymous,
yes, loyalty is good. the slave knows 'loyalty pleases the master.' the master might throw some extra crumbs his way, he might stop beating him up. he might even start treating him like a human being - one day..in the distant future.
What about all the good things Hitler did?
Nature intended OBCs to be our slaves. They are our property."
SCENE 1
Today my mom was arguing with our maid. NO.Not because of the reasons you are thinking...she was trying to convince her to send her child to school.She even offered to provide her with books/or stationery/or even financial help.
She (the maid) replied "Aji itna pada ke kya karna hai?...hume to dasvi ke baad hi byah kar dena hai."
SCENE 2
The child labourer of a nearby general store often comes to our place and we joke around with him.I dont know his caste but he is certainly underpriviledged. That day I asked him,if he goes to school.He was rather confused and said an incoherent 'no'. I spent about 10 to 15 mins trying to convince him of the benefits of schooling... (as a part of joking around my dad commented "beta jaise taise bahrawi karle,sarkaar doctor aise hi bana degi.")
He wasnt convinced and few days later when I asked about schooling...whether he was looking forward to it,he was still not interested.
I ask all you pro reservation people....are you REALLY concerned for the welfare of the underpriviledged? Fine...for you, I may be a sickeningly racist being...a snobbish upper caste female...but what are you?
You have tried your best to talk about quantities....has ever Quality mattered to you?
You believe the government is a well wisher of the OBCs....what have they done so far to raise the standard of government schools?
Its a matter of shame if someone says i study in a govt skool...why?
you talk about % population of OBCs...tell me what % of them even WANTS to go to skool?..let alone engg/medical course?
Why is noone bothered about raising the overall standard of their living through concrete methods...but running after reservation malaise like crazy...?
Dont reply with crap.
*Sigh*
I know this is pointless but...
@First-Commentor-On-last-Blog:
I am not going to discuss my post here but I will give you a pointer - it was written to urge people to self-introspect and you didn't.
About OBCVoice, I do not think s/he 'spews hatred'. I do not think s/he is partisan. This blog is one-sided because s/he has chosen a side. Just like those who have decided to oppose the reservation policy. I dont see you going around accusing Karan Thapar that he is biased...
Half the time I find the comments written by people to be a rehash of the same old arguments. And sometimes they contradict themselves. At one point they say that it is perfectly acceptable if the forward castes are concerned about their chances and yet they oppose reservations for the creamy layer. Why is that contradictory? Well, if the creamy layer do not get reservation, they would have to contest with the upper caste students and create more competition for the same number of seats. And that is just one example.
Most of the comments by the anti-reservationists, here and other places, have been written with an intent of making the other 'see the light', ie, to make them accept their point of view and there has been hardly anyone who has tried to create a dialogue. The comments have been condescending, belligerent and at times, illogical. That makes one polemical. And when they got frustrated, they have been downright abusive. There was one post which had about a hundred comments and most of them were by one person who was abusive over and over again. and you say OBCVoice is abusive?
You said in a comment earlier that you dont like people spreading rhetoric ideas.
*Sigh* That comment was about the rhetoric of a specific group of people. Dont take things out of their context.
In the wake of your support to OBCvoice, can I safely assume that in this case your post about the necessity to see grey is rhetoric.???
You are free to assume anything and deduce anything. Just do not expect me or anyone else to accept them. If they don't, don't get all riled up and indignant about who is right and who is wrong.
@OBCVoice: Thanks for the compliment...
madhat- Well, if the creamy layer do not get reservation, they would have to contest with the upper caste students and create more competition for the same number of seats. And that is just one example.
this just shows that we(gen cat) are ready for competition, even though we know that this will decrease our own chances. infact majority of gen cat are ready for that. are we fool??? no but we believe in equality, if u dont want to scrap reservation atleast exclude those who can compete and already have what u call "level ground". and why only obc have creamy layer? why not sc and st also???? even if u exclude creamy layer , u have ur quotas which will anyway ensure that ur representation is maintained, only people will be different.
mr obc voice-the slave knows 'loyalty pleases the master.' the master might throw some extra crumbs his way, he might stop beating him up. he might even start treating him like a human being - one day..in the distant future.
please stop using that scrap, all here are mature and nobody even bothered about their caste before this agitation(gen sec and president were elected much before this controversy and no body bothered about their caste while giving them votes)
@madhat,
Sweetie please put down that dictionary,honey.
All,
This is Bye from First-Commentor-On-Last-Blog.I noticed in the past few days I was obsessed about writing back on this blog.Only to be ridiculed over and over again.
@Manee, you were right, absolute waste of time,energy,emotions and logic.I should have listened to you long back.
Me too a so-called "upper caste" female.When these guys talk about oppression I feel it is so ridiculous.They talk of rectifying history.Something that our fore-fathers did.Wonder whether they know what it is to be oppresed in today's time.What is to be a vulnerable woman who has to fight her way everyday even today.
Pro-reservation felt bad when someone made castiest comments.Wonder whether they have experienced the anger and frustration when a guy is trying to feel you ass in a bus.
Wonder whether they know the anger when eve-teasing and harrasing is justified saying girls must not wear provocative clothes.When a rape victim has to explain in detail about the incident to prove what happened.
When the guy interviewing me said that he is doubtful about girl candidates because what guarantee is there that you wont leave after marriage. Felt like asking him" you asshole, what guarantee are the male candidates giving you that they wont leave for a better job"
Inspite of the hardships, I dont want any reservation for me ever.I am strong and I am as good as any dick-swinging colleague.
They talk of being victimised, I feel like laughing.Ask women, irrespective of caste and you will understand what oppression is.
Time and again girls do better in exams,and yet we all know about how visible they are in high posts.
OBC voice ,I am hoping that you wont ask for numbers signfying oppression of women.
Manee I think we need to go back and resume being ourselves.One person not budging from a standpoint ,one person turning deaf ears to me and you really does not make a difference.
GOOD BYE
(Hey did i just hear someone saying good riddance??? well same here)
Jesus did it for the chics!! ;)
"Well, if the creamy layer do not get reservation, they would have to contest with the upper caste students and create more competition for the same number of seats."
Diplomacy is the art of saying good doggie while looking for a bigger stick.
Hey 'First-commenter-on-last-blog'
What you said is
"Pro-reservation felt bad when someone made castiest comments.Wonder whether they have experienced the anger and frustration when a guy is trying to feel you ass in a bus.
Wonder whether they know the anger when eve-teasing and harrasing is justified saying girls must not wear provocative clothes.When a rape victim has to explain in detail about the incident to prove what happened.
When the guy interviewing me said that he is doubtful about girl candidates because what guarantee is there that you wont leave after marriage. Felt like asking him" you asshole, what guarantee are the male candidates giving you that they wont leave for a better job"
So what is the point ? Does you assumed that I am tolerant of cat-calling or eve teasing?
anyone who is victimised will feel bad and will take redressal actions and will be a total proponent of that .
I am never got reservations and never going to get reservations. But I have gone through the torture of being an OBC in India. Which I will do anything for doing my bit so that no one else goes through the same.
I want to see Justice served and if it requires reservation then let be it. It is not doling rewards for being OBC, it is for doing away with the injustice, it is for bringing equality and it is for negating the USURPED start with few sections of society got and still getting through legacy.
What could be most terrible about Indian mindset is that when I say to someone that I am OBC they don't believe. Cause they have a picture of what an OBC is and that is the real truth. I want to change that image of OBC.
(if you are victimised for being a woman then you can imagine the same feeling of an OBC)
Excuse for the typos above please.
Thanks.
"I want to see Justice served and if it requires reservation then let be it. ..."
Justice cannot be for one side alone, but must be for both
first-commentor-on-last-blog,
'One person not budging from a standpoint ,one person turning deaf ears to me and you really does not make a difference.'
You wrote so much here..and managed to leave no traces whatsoever of *your standpoint* .. I'm curious, do you have one?
@everyone,
As I have 'deaf ears', could someone else tell me whether 'first-commentor-and-various-other-aliases' had a *standpoint*?
'Insane' the word 'justice' contains measures for both the sides.
Are you confusing 'justice' with 'reward' ?
@obcvoice - don't mind the vitriolic rhetoric of few ppl out here. It is human for them to get distraught when they feel losing their privilege.
You are doing a great work and keep doing it. I appreciate it
pro-reservations,
I was expecting some vitriol.. but was also expecting some sensible responses , backed by sound facts, to my posts opposing my standpoint.. I am disppointed. this is opposition at its worst - heckling, taunts, abuse, cursing...
thanks for being here.
@first-commentor:
Me too a so-called "upper caste" female.When these guys talk about oppression I feel it is so ridiculous.They talk of rectifying history.Something that our fore-fathers did.Wonder whether they know what it is to be oppresed in today's time.What is to be a vulnerable woman who has to fight her way everyday even today.
I agree that women face tough battles in this world and there is no doubt that this situation has to change. But does that completely obiliterate the need to fight against other injustices? It is like saying, Indian women should be content with what they have because women in some middle east countries have it worse! There is one country where the majority of the marriages happen by kidnapping. It is an accepted social tradition there. How would you feel if they came up to you and asked you to shut up talking about oppression because they are facing a far worse and more destructive kind of injustice. What do you have to say bout these women who do not have your 'privilege' of getting educated, your 'privilege' of getting out of the confines of the home to get a job, and 'your' privilige of choice (albeit limited) in who you marry?
Your comment shows your anger and rightly so too. I do not question your anger or your feeling of injustice. But should I take this anger that you have shown to be hatred against all men. Can I? Would that be right? Quite frankly, I cant say. You may or may not. Just because you display anger at being discriminated against because you are woman does not mean that you hate all men and you think all of them are 'evil'.
Ask women, irrespective of caste and you will understand what oppression is.
Ask a lower caste woman. Ask them how it feels to face double discrimination - that of being a woman and that of belonging to a lower caste. If you have the time, read this
@pro-reservation:
It is human for them to get distraught when they feel losing their privilege.
I am sorry but I have to disagree with your statement. Simplifying the arguments/motives is never going to work. I dont think that is the case. Making such blanket statements that border on being hateful just makes people want to say the same things about you.
Many of them do not know what they want. They are torn between opposing feelings of saving the interest of self and the upliftment of the 'other'. They make the vital judgment (pro or anti) before trying to understand the issue and then taylor the arguments for that. They views are vindicated in the opinions of others who get their words published in the media and they never stop to examine them.
Well first-commentator, ananymous and all upper caste friends, the battle you are fighting for your bretheren is a good one and the manner in which you guys have joined ranks and are pouring scorn is commendable.
However, despite the all out war declared by you guys, one thing is sure that the OBCs are going to get reservations from the next years.
While you may have the resources, the media, the money and the NRIs to bank upon but what we have is power of the vote and we are fighting for justice.
Naturally, we are going to win this battle, and the next one and the next one and so on.
Imagine what will happen when a government with majority of OBCs comes to power in centre, what will happen to you guys then. Dont worry, we wont turn you to scheduled castes.
However, even now, i believe we have enough political power to secure our goals.
As far as education for the lower castes and depressed is concerned, i think prior to the reservation announcements none of you guys had ever thought about this issue. So, please dont trouble yourself with issues that do not concern you.
The Brahmins were nevr known to spread education, but they kept it reserved for millions of years. This is the reason that the entire sub-continent is uneducated.
So, what is troubling you guys, you just ensure that your own kids get the rquird education to compete with OBC kids and SC/STs.
Dont worry about us.
The Indian Express has continued its tirade against the depressed classes. In its unrelenting tirade today the Bania Express has brought in some professor Altbach from Boston College USA to comment on the quota policy.
And the learned teacher has done what was expected of him, without ever knowing the history, culture and the social scenario of India. A white male himself, Altbach never suffered any social discrimination but being an upper class white he did not refrain from taking the sides of the upper caste brahmin mafia.
i find madhat the most sensible here.
I read the Indian Express article in question and found few lines hillarious.
It says that admitting students based on quota will lower the quality of the students passing out from the institutes. Now that learned professor from abroad who has no idea of India should explain that "are there going to be some separate exams for giving the degree for reservation quota candidtates"? If not, then how come the quality will decrease ?
And the Professor would do well to write an article to prove that present days admissions in India are best on some innate merit.
*best = based
"are there going to be some separate exams for giving the degree for reservation quota candidtates"?
hmmm...then why quotas-a seperate procedure altogether?
@anti 'pro reservation'
Excuse me ?
Oops! The bride kidnapping practice is in Central Asia, not the Middle East.
I apologise for all Middle Easterners for maligning them...
QUOTAS IN HIGHER EDUCATION
TO BE OR NOT TO BE
When I saw the news scrolling down a news channel that HRD ministry has proposed 27% reservation for OBCs in IITs, IIMs, AIIMSs and other central universities, I thought that the channel has forgotten to put the dot between 2 and 7, or that the dot is too small for me to see it from where I was sitting, and that’s why the actual figure, i.e. 2.7% is appearing as a terrifying 27%. Just to confirm I switched to another news channel, and another, and yet another. And I was shocked to realize that the proposed reservation is not 2.7% as I was thinking; remove the dot, and what you get – 27% is the proposed quota. Then just minutes later a news channel showed that the institutes where the 27% quota for OBCs is to be implemented have already 22.5% seats reserved. Add it, and you get 49.5% seats reserved! I was dumbstruck on seeing these figures…
MY STAND ON RESERVATION
To be plain and simple, I’m against reservation. As per the great Frank Kane (it’s me; my nickname), government is singing the rather unmelodious reservation-song to show its concern for under-privileged (which is as real as daylight in midnight), as well as to cover its inability (and disinterest) to treat the real cause. Before I put forth my arguments, I’d like to mention what the supporters of the proposed move to increase quota have to say in favour of reservation. And then I’ll counter them one by one. I like playing fair and square.
WHAT PEOPLE SAY IN FAVOUR OF RESERVATION
[Following are the views of our politicians, editors and fellow countrymen, who’ve been airing their voices on TV, editorials and readers’ columns for quite some time]
Socially and economically backward classes (SEBCs) don’t get fair share of opportunities to make it big in higher education and that the reservation is necessary for their upliftment. Statistics - tables, charts, graphs displayed on your TV show the percentage of these backward classes in the population and their percentage in higher educational institutes.
Fact is fact. SCs, STs, OBCs and other minority groups have a pitiable representation in higher education, when compared to their share in population. This is the major cause that acts as a barrier in upliftment of these communities. These students hail from communities which have suffered centuries of oppression and discrimination in past. They were not given freedom to develop, and hence measures like reserving seats for them ensures that they move ahead education wise, and thus socially. As the backward communities account for majority of the Indian population, strict measures must be taken for their development, because only then India would be able to develop as a whole. Hence the socially backward classes surely do deserve the favour.
Forward castes, which have a small share in population have monopolised higher education. Despite making only around 20% of India’s population, the forward castes have overwhelmingly dominated seats in institutes of higher learning. They don’t want other communities to come forward and progress. Thus in view of social justice, reservation is a must have.
Moreover the merit, which as argued by the general category students should be the sole criteria for admission to educational institutions, is an ill-defined word. Forward community students avail costly coaching facilities to get into these institutes, which prepares them on the established pattern of examinations. This coaching turns merit merely into a score, achieving which or not depends on one’s affordability factor. This affordability factor puts backward community students at grave disadvantage, as their forward community counterparts gain an extra edge.
These are the views presented in support of reservation. (To remind you, this is not my opinion; the opinion is strictly of Indian public and our ‘respected’ politicians. Courtesy TV and newspapers)
PROVING QUOTAS WRONG
OK, now it’s time to square off against the factors, according to many people, presence of which calls for reservations in IITs, IIMs, AIIMSs and other central universities.
You say coaching is one such factor, poor sections of society cannot afford it. Cent-percent right. But saying that general category people get into reputed colleges & universities because they can afford coaching makes no sense. If this, as argued by those supporting reservation were true, then all millionaires’ kids would have been the brightest in the country. The richer one is, the brighter s/he is.
What rubbish! How disgusting! I know that’s what you’re thinking right now. Rubbish and disgusting, that’s what the point of coaching is in this whole debate. Reserving seats for SEBCs students on this basis is unjust, considering the fact that while many students avail the facility of coaching, only few, a very few of them actually make it to the college of their choice. And those who make it are the ones who’re genuinely talented. No coaching in the world can turn one into a master from mediocre, irrespective of the money one can throw. Coaching does not mean success. Ask the coaching institute which claims itself to be the best in India (there are many that claim themselves to be ‘the’ best) the ratio of students who actually took coaching and those who succeeded. Actual figures (if they ever show you ‘actual’ figures) will confirm what I just said - that only very few of the many who avail coaching make it big.
And saying that these institutions teach as per the established pattern of exams, thus making getting into higher education easier for those who can afford coaching, is an ill-thought statement. Have you ever heard in your life, ever, about a regular pattern of JEE (IITs’ entrance exam) or CAT (IIMs’ entrance exam)? There’s no such established pattern for these exams. In fact it is said that if it ain’t uncertain, it ain’t CAT/JEE. All this talk about coaching institutes opening gateways of higher education for rich is non-sense. It’s not about coaching, it’s not about affordability. It’s about talent.
Does any one of you still believes that I’m talking crap, and that coaching does make the difference and students from weaker sections must be provided equalizer? The claim on equalizer is right in its place. The equalizer to be given should be sponsoring coaching for under-privileged, aiding them financially to avail the facilities of coaching, which will bring them on the same level with general category students. Demanding to fill the gap created by coaching is understood, but seeking reservation as substitute for coaching is like asking a BMW as substitute for Maruti.
Coaching chaos is over. Now it’s time for merit mania, which is a much talked about topic. People say that real merit cannot be determined by an examination of three hours, and that’s how able candidates from backward communities miss out. Former part of the sentence is somewhat true, latter is an irrelevant argument. Whatever the disadvantages of this merit based entrance system are, with all its pros and cons it is one and the same for all the categories of students. Even if there is some loophole in the system due to which some traits (compassion, eagerness, enthusiasm, interest etc.) of a backward community student is not recognized, then the same traits of other forward class students are not recognized as well. It is up to you that how you rate it, but our merit system's uniformity dispels all the claims that backward community students should get quota because of the system’s inefficiency.
Saying that ‘forward’ castes have dominated and monopolized higher education is an exaggeration and misinterpretation of data. Yes, students from these categories are in dominating numbers in reputed colleges & universities, but assuming that it is done with a purpose to deny education to backward castes, and that forward community people don’t want lower community people to join them in higher education is absolutely ridiculous. I ask, is there a formal body of the forward castes which makes such policies? Talking things like this is plain nonsense.
And those who think that students in such institutions are from high-class families, they can’t be more wrong. Majority of the students in higher learning are from middle class families. Stress is on the term ‘middle class’. It is the middle class that has MAJOR share of seats. I felt the need of saying this because I’ve read articles by many eminent persons, stating that higher education has become ‘a privilege of rich’. Sorry sirs, you’re absolutely wrong here. Go to any college in any corner of the country, and every second student you’ll see there will be from a middle class family of Bihar, MP, UP, Chhattisgarh, Jharkhand etc. Calling higher educations as a privilege of rich exposes hollowness in the claim of implementing quotas, with politicians saying so only for the sake of saying it and people saying such things to see their name in the readers’ column in newspapers, so as to inflate their ego.
AGREEING THAT SEBCs DESERVE AND NEED SPECIAL ATTENTION
By no means one can deny the fact SEBCs have been discriminated, oppressed and denied opportunities for centuries, which blocked their chances of progressing, and as a result they are in a miserable condition today. Those who are saying that these SEBCs deserve special attention are absolutely right. Those who say that strict measures need to be taken for their upliftment are also cent-percent right. I whole-heartedly agree with that. Yes sir, strict measures do need to be taken.
BUT...
But there’s one thing I’d like to add in the previous sentence – the word ‘productive’. I think that it’s more meaningful to say that productive measures need to be taken for upliftment of SEBCs. The word ‘productive’ here alone explains protesters’ logic against reservation. Goal of quotas is to enable upliftment of weaker sections of society. Reservation is being opposed simply because it is unproductive. It’s not that those protesting against reservations are against upliftment of deprived. They are against reservations mainly because: 1. Reservation is ineffective in upliftment of weaker sections, and 2. While it doesn’t help SEBCs move up, it will block gateways of education to general category students.
PROVING QUOTAS INEFFECTIVE FOR UPLIFTMENT OF BACKWARD CLASSES
Please allow me to explain my stand on how reservation is ineffective. Let me illustrate it by an example. Consider a house, a withered house - withered by years of strong wind, withered by time, withered by nature, withered by people, in short a house badly in need of renovation. (Doesn’t this house somewhat resemble position of weaker sections?) So, what does the house need? Renovation. Right? Now answer this (please, do that): In this condition if we opt for repainting the house rather than renovating it, then is this the solution to the house’s poor condition? Will this repainting restore the strength to the house? No prizes for guessing, the correct answer is a big NO! We all feel that by merely repainting the house we aren’t improving its condition even a bit, don’t we? Now it doesn’t matter however times the coating of the paint is applied, and it doesn’t matter if we apply velvet paint, because basic condition of the house under that paint is still the same – withered, and badly in need of renovation. We’re just fooling ourselves if we think that we’ve done our duty by repainting the house. Tell me honestly, don’t you all feel the same?
A quick glance at the situation:
Our goal – improving the condition of the house
Action needed – Renovation
Action taken – Repainting
Result – no improvement
Just like repainting can’t bring improvement in the condition of the house, in the same way reservation can’t bring improvement in the condition of deprived. Good things take time. Like renovation, which is the real solution of the problem of house, takes time, the challenge of upliftment of deprived will also take time. And there’s no shortcut to it.
That was showing the ineffectiveness of quotas with the help of an example; and it’s needless to show how implementation of quotas will hammer down opportunities for general category students. Available seats are reduced to half and thus 50% of the qualified candidates won’t get admission only because their caste-certificate says ‘general’. All thanks to the vote-bank politics of the government.
IF NOT RESERVATION, THEN WHAT?
Ok, so I’m saying that reservation is not the solution to the problem of SEBCs. If not reservation, then what is the real solution that will work? Forgive me, here also I’d explain this by an example.
This time, consider a water tank, which receives water from various pipelines. (Assume the water tank to be colleges & universities and the pipelines to be different castes and communities, while amount of water refers to no. of students.) While a few pipelines release water with full pressure, many other pipelines release scarce amount of water. As a result, water coming from the ‘few’ well working pipelines occupies most of the volume in the tank whereas the ‘majority’ of other pipelines account for a meager portion in the total volume. Now we, being just, want that amount of water from other pipelines, which contribute scarce amount to the tank must be increased. So what’s the solution of the problem – securing some space exclusively for low-performance pipelines, while blocking water from other good-performance pipelines, or rightfully giving these pipelines their share in the tank by fixing their ‘real’ problem?
‘Reserving’ space to increase water-share of low-performance pipelines because they aren’t able to work at optimum level, while adamantly cutting down quality inflow from other pipes is insane. A person with sound state of mind will go for fixing the real problem. We will analyse that why ‘the few’ pipelines are contributing large amounts of water whereas why ‘other majority of pipelines’ are contributing lesser amount. Only when we get to know the root cause of poor performance of those pipelines, we would be able to remove the bottlenecks and bring these pipes’ performance to level of the other ‘few’ which have been doing well. Right?
GET TO THE ROOT CAUSE
The practical approach says that the key to eliminate the inequalities between volumes contributed by these pipes is to identify the root cause of the problem and fix it. Same applies upon the problem of HUGE difference between no. of students from forward and backward classes. Find the root cause due to which backward community students are not able to secure a seat for themselves in educational institutions, rather than spoon-feeding them. Providing crutches is not the solution to the handicap, treating the handicap is.
NOW WHAT THE ROOT CAUSE IS HERE?
You don’t need a Sherlock Holmes to figure out why backward section students fail to get into reputed colleges & universities. We all know the reason is that they don’t get quality education at the grass root level. In terms of education, they are handicapped right from the beginning. Education in their formative years is highly neglected. They’re hardly ever motivated for studying. Thus they look at studies as a burden they have to carry on just for formality. As a result, mediocrity becomes their habit and they end up doing small things.
While on the other hand, the so-called forward caste students who make it to higher education are able to do so because they are provided right education, environment and motivation right from their childhood. They have an ambition. In short, proper guidance leads them to success in their academic life.
This thing called ‘primary education’ makes all the difference. Sorry, ‘quality primary education’ makes all the difference. Privileged are those who get it and deprived are those who don’t. If the government really wants to improve the status of weaker sections of the society, then school level education must be its top priority, as it is the most decisive factor in one’s academic life. This is the time when one develops an ambition for himself/herself. The attitude one acquires in this phase paves way for things to come in future.
REALITY CHECK - TRUTH OF THE GOVT. SCHOOLS
We are tired of seeing ‘sarva shiksha abhiyan’ (education for all) and ‘school chalo’ (let’s go to school) kind of ads. We all know what the level of education is in government schools. The vast majority of children of under-privileged class who can’t afford to study in public schools, about whom our government is so concerned (pun intended), head toward government schools. Now tell me when was it the last time that you opened the local pages of your daily Hindi newspaper and you didn’t find a news like this – severe shortage of teachers (or lack of them) in a certain govt. school; govt. school classrooms being used as store rooms by some seth ji; a govt. school with no infrastructure, no facilities at all (this one is the most common). This type of news is as common in Hindi dailies as Bollywood controversies.
It has become a daily routine to see news channels airing reports like teachers of a rural school beat down children savagely for petite reasons. In such places is cane is used more frequently than chalk. And this is not one particular example, but the general condition of the government schools. Such atmosphere makes school the last place children feel like going. No wonder, ‘mass-absenteeism’ is a common characteristic of these schools. This pitiable, miserable, abysmal and dismal start to one’s academic life sets a chain reaction, where government’s indifferent attitude acts as a catalyst, end product of which is multitude of…sorry, HUGE multitude of ill-educated people.
SWEET AND SIMPLE SOLUTION
So if there’s any area that needs to be worked out for upliftment of weaker sections, it is primary education. WELL BEGUN IS HALF DONE. So to ensure bright future for everyone, make sure that they get sound education right from the grass-root level. Not only education, but they must also be provided with motivation, proper guidance and most importantly, right atmosphere.
FUTURE IS NOW
We often lament about mistakes we made in the past. Today’s present will be past in the future. So to avoid any future regrets, we must ensure that our future’s past, i.e. present is error-free. Let’s not give the forthcoming generations a chance to say that situation of certain sections of society is still pathetic due to vote-bank politics of our previous generation. Let’s be practical and work towards empowering SEBCs by focusing on their real problems, rather than hollering brainlessly about reservation.
THE END
[Note: There’s a lot more I’ve got to say about this hue and cry over reservation debate. If you didn’t fall asleep while reading this article (congrats by the way for it), then be glad, ‘cuz there’s more to come for you
"Imagine what will happen when a government with majority of OBCs comes to power in centre, what will happen to you guys then."
It's not how you pick your nose, it's how you eat that booger that counts.
"Are you confusing 'justice' with 'reward' ?"
Confusion is a word we have invented for an order which is not understood.
Great Frank Kane,
Welcome to planet earth.
"Great Frank Kane,
Welcome to planet earth."
You're too cute to be straight
pro reservation,
to phir aarakshan kyu-ek poorna roop se bhinn prakriya ?
asha hai ab apki mati mein hamara prashn aa gaya hoga?
Anti 'pro reservation'
You have delineated the maturity of your thought process. Your bakruptcy of having any intellectual conflict resolution capability made you resort to cheapness. So I would excuse that.
My point which is proving difficult for you to absorb is
Reservation is required for few sections of society to tide over the entrance test which does not necessarily test merit. To mitigate the disadvantage they have since centuries, they are being given that. Reservation STOPS there.
After this the institute has its own exams and if the admitted student can't pass the exams he/she won't get the degree. Even after reservation, all those who get the degree will be of SAME standard. So how come the quality of the institutes will be lowered ?
I hope now it will be easy for you to coherently develop upon it. And I would apprecite atleast tinge of civility in the debate.
Thanks,
"After this the institute has its own exams and if the admitted student can't pass the exams he/she won't get the degree."
oh-how-innocent. Ofcourse, if the above fail to pass the exam or get the degree then its upper caste prejudice of the faculty,admistration that is keeping them at bay.And we just watch till you guys come up with another demand for giving degrees via reservation.
So you are assuming that those who are NOT OF 'upper caste' can't make at par degree holders. So you assume that the entrance test is the correct test of merit ?
And don't exaggerate or over-stretch a point. Reservation of SC/STs are there for 50 years, did they ask for degree without passing the exams ?
I can sense conceit and contempt in your statement.
"After this the institute has its own exams and if the admitted student can't pass the exams he/she won't get the degree. Even after reservation, all those who get the degree will be of SAME standard"
so passing an exam is enough?? acha
and if everybody has passed the MBBS exam(that means have adequate knowledge) then why do u need reservations for PG???
MR MINE GURUJI SAID"So, what is troubling you guys, you just ensure that your own kids get the rquird education to compete with OBC kids and SC/STs.
man we are asking for competition, we are saying creamy layer (of OBC/SC/ST all)to come forward and compete with us, its you who is fearing the competition.
"Reservation is required for few sections of society to tide over the entrance test which does not necessarily test merit."
all those who enter through OBC or other reservations learn into same colleges, go to same coaching institutes, spent same amount of money like general cat, so why do they need special provision to tide over???
anybody can go and check in counselling that will take place in maharashtra MBBS seats.
So you are assuming that those who are NOT OF 'upper caste' can't make at par degree holders.
nobody is assuming. But looking at the 'jehad' you guys believe are fighting there is hardly any credebility to your grounds. First, undergrad, then post grad and now the mother of all to come is jobs in private sector.
So you assume that the entrance test is the correct test of merit ?
Excuse me! did I mention merit anywhere? It's all about how are you manipulating.And it does'nt stop here. You probably have alot more reservations and God-know-what-other-s**t instore in the name of 'golden age for OBCs'.
"I can sense conceit and contempt in your statement."
same here baby!
Hey ananymous, The creamy layer is always out of the reservations.
Just read the barbarindians blog and he trumpets that OBC students are beating the upper castes at their own game. Just go through it, although you recommended it in the first place.
"mineguruji..."
you can kiss your BALLS goodbye (if u have any!?!)
Hey ananymous, The creamy layer is always out of the reservations.
no, tamil nadu does not have any creamy layer. SC and ST dont have any creamy layer.
and we dont mind being beaten by anybody, mind you general cat includes everybody. its you who r playing foul game.
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